1 00:00:00,12 --> 00:00:06,480 Hello, welcome back to Energy 101. Today we're going to do an other lecture 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:11,390 talk about other energy issues and technologies,[COUGH]. 3 00:00:11,390 --> 00:00:16,147 I didn't quite to know what to call this, but it's the catchall for the issues that 4 00:00:16,147 --> 00:00:20,762 in technologies that some of you that brought up, and that would, wanted to 5 00:00:20,762 --> 00:00:26,466 want it covered. there's, there's just not, wasn't time to 6 00:00:26,466 --> 00:00:29,830 cover everything. This is the last week. 7 00:00:29,830 --> 00:00:33,460 But let me just make some general statements about them. 8 00:00:33,460 --> 00:00:38,887 but how, how did I choose the topic, I think, self recognize how I chose the 9 00:00:38,887 --> 00:00:44,890 topics that we did cover. it, it came from the course objectives in 10 00:00:44,890 --> 00:00:48,916 that I wanted you to know where our energy use is going and, and what the 11 00:00:48,916 --> 00:00:55,152 demand is and why we have that demand. Wanted you to know where the energy 12 00:00:55,152 --> 00:00:59,908 sources are that we're getting them from, and the conversion technologies. 13 00:00:59,908 --> 00:01:03,690 and then have at least some examples of how to access and the process of 14 00:01:03,690 --> 00:01:07,870 assessing new energy technologies and deployment. 15 00:01:07,870 --> 00:01:11,710 So this is all about deployment, assessing what happens when you deploy 16 00:01:11,710 --> 00:01:15,742 new energy technologies, which we certainly hope will happen here over the 17 00:01:15,742 --> 00:01:20,310 next 20 to 50 years or and including next year. 18 00:01:20,310 --> 00:01:25,590 So that, that was my purpose and I always say we need to understand the 10 to 15 19 00:01:25,590 --> 00:01:33,330 trillion dollar infrastructure that exists in our energy system today. 20 00:01:33,330 --> 00:01:36,990 It's at least that, and we can't just bulldoze it all down overnight and 21 00:01:36,990 --> 00:01:42,570 replace it with something new. But we've gotta have a plan, and just in 22 00:01:42,570 --> 00:01:48,710 case haven't made the point that we need to do everything. 23 00:01:48,710 --> 00:01:53,561 We need, no matter how small or how big, we need to do implement all the new 24 00:01:53,561 --> 00:01:57,873 technologies to reduce energy consumption, increase our supply, 25 00:01:57,873 --> 00:02:03,263 increase our renewable energy, decrease CO2 emissions and decrease particularly 26 00:02:03,263 --> 00:02:10,820 oil supply but also of course for CO2, co, coal and gas. 27 00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:18,420 so I'm going to talk about a lot of em, here so let me just race through them. 28 00:02:18,420 --> 00:02:23,43 number one, one thing that's always a little frustrating to me, is that there's 29 00:02:23,43 --> 00:02:27,197 an infinite number of, of ideas and suggestions that have been sa, ga, have 30 00:02:27,197 --> 00:02:34,576 been brought to me over the last 35, 40 years that I've been in the energy area. 31 00:02:34,576 --> 00:02:39,544 particularly in the 70's they started with the the energy crisis in the 70's 32 00:02:39,544 --> 00:02:43,936 which if you Google it, and look back at it, had a dramatic impact on our 33 00:02:43,936 --> 00:02:50,231 lifestyle and culture which I won't go into. 34 00:02:50,231 --> 00:02:51,895 But th, th, there are either they want, they want somebody to access their 35 00:02:51,895 --> 00:02:53,754 technology, analyze it, and develop it and build it. 36 00:02:53,754 --> 00:03:00,554 Because it's such a great idea they're convinced it'll revolutionize the world, 37 00:03:00,554 --> 00:03:07,354 they just want to keep the patent rights and want somebody else at no cost, to to 38 00:03:07,354 --> 00:03:15,904 them to access it and develop it. obviously that doesn't work, in my 39 00:03:15,904 --> 00:03:20,492 situation anyway. I don't have those resources available to 40 00:03:20,492 --> 00:03:25,786 me from the university or otherwise. and, but a few of them also are building 41 00:03:25,786 --> 00:03:29,10 prototypes, but they're not quite running, they hadn't, they won't work, 42 00:03:29,10 --> 00:03:33,50 but all they need is a few million dollars more. 43 00:03:33,50 --> 00:03:39,518 And the couple, they're generally raised a lot of money in some cases and to 44 00:03:39,518 --> 00:03:45,32 amateur investors they convinced would work. 45 00:03:45,32 --> 00:03:50,345 but the ones I hear about most, they immediately are recognizable as violating 46 00:03:50,345 --> 00:03:57,14 the natural laws of nature. for instance, engines running on water. 47 00:03:57,14 --> 00:04:02,198 hydro-electric power generators, that have more than 100% efficiency volleying 48 00:04:02,198 --> 00:04:08,392 the conservation of energy law, that you cannot create or destroy energy. 49 00:04:08,392 --> 00:04:11,855 engines running off of magnets, that's the really popular one. 50 00:04:11,855 --> 00:04:16,600 That is free energy, because, you can get it from magnets and you won't demagnetize 51 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,912 the magnets, it'll just run forever for perpetual motion. 52 00:04:21,912 --> 00:04:25,776 And often they have patents, but having a patent, people think because you got a 53 00:04:25,776 --> 00:04:31,332 patent that it means it'll work. Patent knowledge does not substantiate 54 00:04:31,332 --> 00:04:34,994 that it'll work. They merely substantiate that it's unique 55 00:04:34,994 --> 00:04:39,154 compared to other patents that are out there and other technologies and ideas 56 00:04:39,154 --> 00:04:43,771 that are out there. regarding engines running on water, I 57 00:04:43,771 --> 00:04:48,510 always like to tell the story, I've been in that one for a long time. 58 00:04:48,510 --> 00:04:51,410 When I was a teenager I had a friend that had an old car and the fuel tank, 59 00:04:51,410 --> 00:04:57,184 gasoline tank rusted. And it would get rust in the carburetor, 60 00:04:57,184 --> 00:05:03,944 so he just disconnected the fuel tank on the car, and put a five gallon can in the 61 00:05:03,944 --> 00:05:10,80 back floorboard. Back then they had enough floorboard 62 00:05:10,80 --> 00:05:13,770 space to do that in the back. And put gasoline in there, and just ran 63 00:05:13,770 --> 00:05:18,430 the gas line in there, and pumped it out of there instead of out of the tank. 64 00:05:18,430 --> 00:05:22,135 And so, one Saturday afternoon, we mischievous teenagers didn't have enough 65 00:05:22,135 --> 00:05:25,555 to do, so we went to a, we, we'd go around to all the filling stations in the 66 00:05:25,555 --> 00:05:29,602 town, and they were self service, I mean, excuse me full service back then, and 67 00:05:29,602 --> 00:05:34,850 nobody pumped their gas. And we'd pull up and they'd say, can I 68 00:05:34,850 --> 00:05:36,920 help you? We'd say, no we just need some water. 69 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,120 And we'd get the water hose and put water in the fuel tank. 70 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,950 And then we had an aspirin bottle that we had taken the labels off. 71 00:05:44,950 --> 00:05:48,61 When you take a pill out, and we'd throw an aspirin in there, then get in and 72 00:05:48,61 --> 00:05:51,67 drive off. And we thought that was hilarious, that 73 00:05:51,67 --> 00:05:54,490 we trying to make people think we were running a car on water. 74 00:05:54,490 --> 00:05:58,975 But that, that's been around for a long time and I've gone to look at projects 75 00:05:58,975 --> 00:06:03,360 over the years. I could write a book on, on the projects 76 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:08,68 that I've looked at including nuclear powered engines. 77 00:06:08,68 --> 00:06:12,828 one in Daytona, Florida that, that could have, that raised a lot of money from, 78 00:06:12,828 --> 00:06:17,728 from amateur investors, like a million dollars or so, and that claimed it was 79 00:06:17,728 --> 00:06:24,276 running off of nuclear power. But none of those ever proved out when I 80 00:06:24,276 --> 00:06:28,372 looked at em and was able to have the time and money to make an assessment of 81 00:06:28,372 --> 00:06:32,426 it. But unfortunately, all these ideas keep 82 00:06:32,426 --> 00:06:36,539 coming back, because negative assessments are never published. 83 00:06:36,539 --> 00:06:41,367 the, it's, you don't publish in the science journal, or engineering journal, 84 00:06:41,367 --> 00:06:46,908 or popular journal negative assessments. And as soon you make a negative 85 00:06:46,908 --> 00:06:50,172 assessment, someone will make a small suggested change to it, that means you 86 00:06:50,172 --> 00:06:55,420 gotta start all over again, do it again. But they never do the assessment. 87 00:06:55,420 --> 00:06:59,392 They want you to do it and so, it is problematic. 88 00:06:59,392 --> 00:07:03,226 But they're infinite number of them, and we can't cover an infinite number in this 89 00:07:03,226 --> 00:07:06,940 course, obviously, can't even cover a finite number. 90 00:07:06,940 --> 00:07:11,500 But let's just look at a few of them and I'll make some comments. 91 00:07:11,500 --> 00:07:14,630 The first one being energy use efficiency and conservation. 92 00:07:14,630 --> 00:07:20,2 This is a huge opportunity from the beginning, these are, the, every one of 93 00:07:20,2 --> 00:07:24,740 these issues here are public policy issues. 94 00:07:24,740 --> 00:07:29,330 They're not technology issues, we have the technology to do all these things. 95 00:07:29,330 --> 00:07:32,710 And they're developed, and all you gotta do is just have a market for them, and, 96 00:07:32,710 --> 00:07:37,277 and it's we'll have it. but the first one, which I've been 97 00:07:37,277 --> 00:07:41,605 involved in, since, , what the 80s, early 80s. 98 00:07:41,605 --> 00:07:45,821 I'm not doing it anymore, but, in existing factories and buildings to, 99 00:07:45,821 --> 00:07:51,390 reduce their energy consumption by do going in and doing energy auditing. 100 00:07:51,390 --> 00:07:56,715 And in many cases with no dollars spent, merely making adjustments, settings, you 101 00:07:56,715 --> 00:08:01,188 can smugif, significantly, like 20%, reduce the energy consumption of the 102 00:08:01,188 --> 00:08:06,212 factory or building. But, and you say, well that's wonderful, 103 00:08:06,212 --> 00:08:10,10 and you do that once and it's done. But you can't do it once, because if you 104 00:08:10,10 --> 00:08:13,360 go back in a year, you find that all the adjustments are out of kilter, and they 105 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:18,610 use as much energy as they were before. So it's an execution and management 106 00:08:18,610 --> 00:08:23,360 problem again, it's not a technology problem, and, I'm a technologist. 107 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:28,232 I'm not a public policy person, I'm not a politician, so I try to stay to 108 00:08:28,232 --> 00:08:33,440 technologies, and access the impact of those technologies, on our energy 109 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:40,580 consumption and our infrastructure and CO2 emissions. 110 00:08:40,580 --> 00:08:44,935 an example are appliances, that refrigerators, that's a beautiful example 111 00:08:44,935 --> 00:08:49,354 and it's brought up many, many times of what we can do. 112 00:08:49,354 --> 00:08:55,719 Refrigerators today are the same size, use three times less electricity than it 113 00:08:55,719 --> 00:08:59,24 did in 1975. How did that come about? 114 00:08:59,24 --> 00:09:02,682 Well, it came about not by free market place, fortunately, even though the 115 00:09:02,682 --> 00:09:06,340 economics were very positive, they by spending a little bit more money you 116 00:09:06,340 --> 00:09:10,488 could always get a little more efficiency. 117 00:09:10,488 --> 00:09:15,781 But their accomplish were thee, the Congress passing U.S efficiency standards 118 00:09:15,781 --> 00:09:21,627 that, are set by, the ability for DOE to set those efficiency standards, and apply 119 00:09:21,627 --> 00:09:26,683 minimum efficiency standards to any refrigerator that is sold, and was sold 120 00:09:26,683 --> 00:09:33,896 starting in the 70s. And today and they're using three times 121 00:09:33,896 --> 00:09:37,840 less so in 35 years, and with that technologies available in the 70s is 122 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,548 available now. heat pump water heaters is another one, 123 00:09:42,548 --> 00:09:46,757 that hasn't been as success, as popular as refrigerators, because that one was 124 00:09:46,757 --> 00:09:51,76 mandated, heat pump heaters were not mandated. 125 00:09:51,76 --> 00:09:55,699 but heat pump water heaters, they use the heat pump affect compared to electric 126 00:09:55,699 --> 00:10:02,190 water heaters they'll save 50% of the electricity used to heat water. 127 00:10:02,190 --> 00:10:05,794 they bring the operating costs for electric resistance water heating down to 128 00:10:05,794 --> 00:10:10,113 about that of natural gas. so they don't, heat pump water heaters 129 00:10:10,113 --> 00:10:14,209 don't compete with natural gas water heaters but they will save about 50% 130 00:10:14,209 --> 00:10:18,881 compared to conventional electric water heaters, including instantaneous water 131 00:10:18,881 --> 00:10:24,127 heaters. and I, I could go on and on with 132 00:10:24,127 --> 00:10:27,926 appliances. But that one merely, the heat pump water 133 00:10:27,926 --> 00:10:30,750 heater is merely the economics are very good. 134 00:10:30,750 --> 00:10:35,649 Typically a household will spend $600 a year for hot water heating and heat pump 135 00:10:35,649 --> 00:10:40,548 water heaters are on the order of $1,500, so it's a 2 to 3 year payback, and better 136 00:10:40,548 --> 00:10:44,808 than that in some areas like Hawaii or high, California high cost the 137 00:10:44,808 --> 00:10:52,993 electricity years. regarding auto efficiency, that's another 138 00:10:52,993 --> 00:10:58,733 example of that was accomplished by US EPA Standards when they were first 139 00:10:58,733 --> 00:11:05,100 imposed in '70, mid '70s. average auto effi, efficiency was 13 140 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:08,560 miles per gallon. that improved to about 28 miles per 141 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:14,480 gallon due to standards set by the EPA. And but they didn't change from 28, for 142 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:22,310 about from the mid 80s or so, up until them mid 2000s or late 2000s. 143 00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:26,763 So we went about 20 years without increasing that, even though Europe has 144 00:11:26,763 --> 00:11:31,873 had the technology there for many, many years because they have more an economic 145 00:11:31,873 --> 00:11:36,25 incentive. And, we, th, they have a large tax on 146 00:11:36,25 --> 00:11:40,216 their gasoline and diesel fuel. So those again are examples that have 147 00:11:40,216 --> 00:11:45,80 been done and can be done, but they're public policy issues, none of these are 148 00:11:45,80 --> 00:11:52,15 technology barriers. we, we don't need to be doing R&D on them 149 00:11:52,15 --> 00:11:56,240 particularly of significance, just developing the component base of the 150 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:01,543 technology that we have. other energy technologies, don't know 151 00:12:01,543 --> 00:12:07,130 what else to call it other then other. sa, people have asked, you have asked for 152 00:12:07,130 --> 00:12:11,875 items such as ocean energy, lightning energy, electric power transmission, 153 00:12:11,875 --> 00:12:16,620 distribution smart grids, keystone pipelines, solar/wind electric energy 154 00:12:16,620 --> 00:12:22,544 storage, and solar/wind backup power to be addressed. 155 00:12:22,544 --> 00:12:25,496 We don't have time to go into all of those. 156 00:12:25,496 --> 00:12:29,678 essentially most of these are not being deployed. 157 00:12:29,678 --> 00:12:35,82 smart grid is the exception. and maybe Keystone Pipeline will be 158 00:12:35,82 --> 00:12:40,148 implemated, who knows. but let's start with the beginning here 159 00:12:40,148 --> 00:12:44,426 and look at ocean energy wave, tidal and currents looked at that many times, and 160 00:12:44,426 --> 00:12:50,920 there's a lot of da, lot of analysis that's out there and available in that. 161 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,574 The bottom line is that it's a dispersed form of energy for, you gotta cover a 162 00:12:54,574 --> 00:12:59,70 large area if you're trying to capture wave energy. 163 00:12:59,70 --> 00:13:03,880 tidal energy many times will get in the way of navigation currents. 164 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:08,771 And that's caused by tides flowing with currents flowing in and out due to tides, 165 00:13:08,771 --> 00:13:13,954 is the, the, the navigation issues, but the bigger problem is infrastructure and 166 00:13:13,954 --> 00:13:18,553 robust system that you have to put in place to, to survive the 30 foot or so 167 00:13:18,553 --> 00:13:23,882 ocean waves that develop just seasonally, not due to hurricanes or storms, but just 168 00:13:23,882 --> 00:13:34,260 seasonal act, storms and activities. It requires robust, robust systems. 169 00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:39,672 And I was born and grew up down in the southeastern coast of Florida near West 170 00:13:39,672 --> 00:13:45,330 Palm Beach and the, the Gulf stream, is the closest to the coastline down there, 171 00:13:45,330 --> 00:13:51,480 than any other place along the Atlantic seaboard, where the where the where the 172 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:59,498 Gulf stream flows. And, for, probably 50 years, people have, 173 00:13:59,498 --> 00:14:03,656 including the Navy, have gone out there and tried to put turbines in the gulf 174 00:14:03,656 --> 00:14:08,606 stream to capture some of that energy and to generate electricity, none of it to 175 00:14:08,606 --> 00:14:13,292 any avail because they would always break loose and they have to, they just used to 176 00:14:13,292 --> 00:14:17,252 have to have a incredibly robust structure to make them sto, stay fixed, 177 00:14:17,252 --> 00:14:25,450 and all of this is economics. That's one thing I probably haven't 178 00:14:25,450 --> 00:14:29,100 mentioned enough, is economics, economics, economics, economics. 179 00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:33,525 We need to be in deploying the, the renewable energy technologies, for 180 00:14:33,525 --> 00:14:38,850 instance, and oil saving technologies that will save the most oil and the most 181 00:14:38,850 --> 00:14:45,880 CO2 emissions with a minimum capital investment and minimum cost. 182 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,368 And in a free marketplace, which is what we have, given thee, thee restrictions 183 00:14:50,368 --> 00:14:56,810 and the policies you'll come up with the least cost way to accomplish that. 184 00:14:56,810 --> 00:15:01,628 People will mention lightning, lightning is so sporadic, both in time and location 185 00:15:01,628 --> 00:15:07,88 it's just it, it's just not practical. Electric power distribution and 186 00:15:07,88 --> 00:15:12,144 transmission, the smart grid is, is, is already being implemented essentially. 187 00:15:12,144 --> 00:15:15,200 remote meter reading is part of the smart grid. 188 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:21,134 And when you've got dispersed power generation with photo altag systems on 189 00:15:21,134 --> 00:15:25,205 roofs. Or, or large privately owned wind farms 190 00:15:25,205 --> 00:15:29,749 that are distributed around your grid, you've got a lot more generation, 191 00:15:29,749 --> 00:15:36,75 generation out there that's dispersed. And you gotta have a smart grid to 192 00:15:36,75 --> 00:15:39,705 control it, and know when it's coming up and down and it's varying with the wind, 193 00:15:39,705 --> 00:15:43,350 it's varying with the sunlight, et cetera. 194 00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:47,610 So that's something that's happening and this is, requires a lot of effort for 195 00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:51,990 deployment and demonstration but that's the mode we're in with transmission and 196 00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:57,236 distribution. DC And, versus AC, we use a lot of DC 197 00:15:57,236 --> 00:16:03,228 transmission today, at very high voltage over longer distance. 198 00:16:03,228 --> 00:16:08,220 and even for offshore wind farms, they many times will convert the, the AC 199 00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:15,890 generated by the generator in the turbine to DC and pipe it underwater. 200 00:16:15,890 --> 00:16:21,130 For, went with DC power, and then convert it back to AC when it goes into the grid. 201 00:16:21,130 --> 00:16:27,173 Wireless technology for transmissions. That's, we, we use wireless transmission 202 00:16:27,173 --> 00:16:32,40 for information and there's very little power to it. 203 00:16:32,40 --> 00:16:35,866 that's, that's just several orders of magnitude less power. 204 00:16:35,866 --> 00:16:40,696 Then, then what would make it practical, and I, they can be used in some isolated 205 00:16:40,696 --> 00:16:45,456 cases like wireless powering, wireless phones or wireless tele, televisions or 206 00:16:45,456 --> 00:16:50,286 things, but as far as transmitting bulk power, to power a home, It's, I don't 207 00:16:50,286 --> 00:16:57,902 think that's in the cards. Keystone pipeline even, that's obviously 208 00:16:57,902 --> 00:17:02,368 a policy issue there. and thee, there's, there's some good 209 00:17:02,368 --> 00:17:07,835 assessments done by quality people with all the assumptions in it, and stated and 210 00:17:07,835 --> 00:17:12,686 that have looked at the CO2 emissions from oil, that is produced from the tar 211 00:17:12,686 --> 00:17:19,590 sands up in Canada. And it, it, it does, the oil coming out 212 00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:24,0 of the tar sands up in Canada do produce more CO2 than the ones that in which we 213 00:17:24,0 --> 00:17:29,844 just drill a hole in the ground and the oil comes up. 214 00:17:29,844 --> 00:17:36,30 But, it's it, it, it is produce, does produce more global warming. 215 00:17:36,30 --> 00:17:40,320 Whether we should have, should have the Keystone pipeline is a, is a permeating 216 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:45,732 policy issue, that everybody can have their own opinion on that. 217 00:17:45,732 --> 00:17:51,696 solar/wind electric energy storage, is something we really need, if we're going 218 00:17:51,696 --> 00:17:58,943 to have a dominate amount of our electricity coming from solar and wind. 219 00:17:58,943 --> 00:18:04,110 But the economics of that today are just really far off. 220 00:18:04,110 --> 00:18:08,928 and we need to keep working on that, but this is not in the near term deployment 221 00:18:08,928 --> 00:18:13,218 phase at any economical or competitive situation, that we are getting to with 222 00:18:13,218 --> 00:18:20,164 wind and solar power generation. But in that same line, the backup without 223 00:18:20,164 --> 00:18:24,876 the energy storage for solar and wind, then we have to have backup power, so 224 00:18:24,876 --> 00:18:30,196 that when a cloud comes across our PV system or the winds slackens off, for our 225 00:18:30,196 --> 00:18:35,440 wind power, that we get conventional dispatchable, we call it power plants 226 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:46,204 that can be cranked up and turned on to meet the power demand that people want. 227 00:18:46,204 --> 00:18:50,644 so that's just a quick run down of some of those other, I call em energy 228 00:18:50,644 --> 00:18:56,342 technologies, and we're, we're at the end of the road here, regarding this course, 229 00:18:56,342 --> 00:19:02,366 Energy 101. sorry we didn't have more, time to, to 230 00:19:02,366 --> 00:19:07,526 cover more topics. your posts were great, and the, the the 231 00:19:07,526 --> 00:19:12,325 disccusion was great. The one that created the most controversy 232 00:19:12,325 --> 00:19:17,727 was electric cars and CO2 emissions. I wanted, I did that in order to make a 233 00:19:17,727 --> 00:19:22,463 point and I was reacting to the zero emissions emblem that's on the back of 234 00:19:22,463 --> 00:19:27,582 every leaf. that is true with the proper assumptions, 235 00:19:27,582 --> 00:19:31,181 in other words, if you're look at the tailpipe only, there are 0 emissions 236 00:19:31,181 --> 00:19:35,810 coming out of the tailpipe, because it doesn't have one. 237 00:19:35,810 --> 00:19:39,890 But when you look back at where the get their electrical power, you have to make 238 00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:43,970 a lot of assumptions, that I made some in my assessment that I think are reasonable 239 00:19:43,970 --> 00:19:48,110 from national perspective, and that has to do with energy policy is applicable 240 00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:53,661 today, today. In the future you always create a, a 241 00:19:53,661 --> 00:19:57,652 scenario in which, things will be worse or better. 242 00:19:57,652 --> 00:20:02,206 And, locally, you can always create a specific state event, for instance, that 243 00:20:02,206 --> 00:20:06,139 they save significant fuel, that significant CO2, other states, it 244 00:20:06,139 --> 00:20:11,168 doesn't. But I think always in doing assessments 245 00:20:11,168 --> 00:20:16,472 and compare, comparing technologies, you always need to look at apples to apples 246 00:20:16,472 --> 00:20:21,776 and comparing, a Leaf's CO2 emissions, with an SUV is an unfair comparison 247 00:20:21,776 --> 00:20:26,612 because that, you can, got a lot of options to replace this SUV for a less 248 00:20:26,612 --> 00:20:35,572 fuel consumption and CO2 emissions than going to a, a, leaf. 249 00:20:35,572 --> 00:20:39,797 so I, I think you need to look at that, that, that has to do with change in our, 250 00:20:39,797 --> 00:20:46,600 our mix of types of vehicles that we have, and we certainly need to do that. 251 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,492 Europe is the best place that example for that, that we can see. 252 00:20:50,492 --> 00:20:54,457 I consistently, when I'm over there get 40 to 45 miles per gallon, in a five 253 00:20:54,457 --> 00:20:59,165 passenger midsize car. Technologies here, is not a technology 254 00:20:59,165 --> 00:21:03,290 issue, again, its a policy, policy issue. So thank you. 255 00:21:03,290 --> 00:21:05,954 We'll do a wrap up and summary next. Thank you. 256 00:21:05,954 --> 00:21:08,514 [BLANK_AUDIO]